The Possible Descendents of Patrick Stacke b:c1360
James R Beard December 2017
A Thomas Fitz-Patrick Stacke b: c1360, was one of the “1422 Stackes” who witnessed and indenture of the Lord of Kerry to the Earl of Desmond in 1422 at Castleisland, Co Kerry 1 . Two other lay Stackes also witnessed the indenture, a Captain William Fitz-Richard Stacke and a Maurice Fitz-Redmond Stacke and the Possible lines of Descent of Richard and Redmond were discussed in References 2 and 3 based on the partial pedigrees of Stacks identified in the Pardons and attainments of land documented in the Fiants of Elizabeth I and the Patent and Close Rolls of Elizabeth I and James I. For 1422 Patrick Stacke I have not encountered a single Fiant or Patent (F&P) record that identifies a “Patrick Stack” for any generation . Perhaps his line was ultra loyal to the crown and thus did not receive any Pardons or attainments of lans.
There are a few F&P records that identify potential Patricks who are listed Patronymically , i.e. Patrick M’ XXXXX where XXXXX signifies the forename of some generation of the family. I was able to find only four Patricks that I could verify were from Co Kerry. Of the four, only one had a recorded Townland. That record is shown in Figure 3 which is a four generation pedigree of a Pardon from Pat 2 of James 1 in c1605,that reads as follows:
“ General Pardon to . . . Donill Groma Mc Carhig of Dungiull, Rob.Mc James of the same, Edw. Oge Mc Edmond Mc Patrick of the same [Dungiull]. . .” .
There were six other Stakes (Stacks/Stackes) listed in the general Pardon. The Stakes recorded were: Tho. Ny (nee) Downy Stake, Tho Fitz-James Stake, Tho Mc Wil. Stake, Philip oge Stake, Tho. of Garrinea Stake, and Edw.Fitz Garrett Stake of Drumvrin . I believe Tho. of Garrinea Stake could possibly have been Thomas Stack 9,1 of the Errimore
Stacks 4 , the 9th generation Stack from Sir Rickard Stack (b:c1360), Lord of Errimore. What makes the
This Patrick of Dungiull ( From Pat 2 of James I) record important, is that Dungiull is the current Townland of Dungeel which is in the in Co Kerry and borders on the River Laune which drains Lough Leane in the Southern part of Co Kerry as shown in the map above. The Stacks were said to have possessed land along the river with “. . .another family of the same name as Stack had an ample estate near the River Laune in Desmond and built a castle there by the name of Fiery . . .”. 4. ( However, I could not find Castle Fiery on the listing of the Castles of Co Kerry)
The four generation pedigree of Edw. Oge Mc Edmond Mc Patrick of TL Dungiull/Dungeel is shown Figure 1 below. Based on the Fiant Pardon date for Edw oge, c1605, Patrick aligns within 4th generation. Perhaps the 1422 Thomas Fitz-Patrick Stack was one representative of South Central Co. Kerry at the Castleisland 1422 Indenture meeting between Lord Kerry and the Earl of Desmond. Captain William Fitz-Richard Stacke probably represented Barony Clanmaurice and Maurice Fitz-Redmond Stacke probably represemted Barony Iraghticonnor. Castleisland is approximately midway between Irramore/ Lixnaw and Dungeel. The fourth / fifth generation Patrick (4,1) leaves at least one missing generation, the third, between him and Thomas 2,1 Fitz Patrick Stacke 1
Only one other suspect Stack named Patrick was found in the F&P’s partial pedigrees from County Kerry. This is surprising as Patrick is a very common Irish Forename. Perhaps the Patrick Stacks in the late 16th and early 17th century were loyal to the crown and would not warrant any pardons. This Patrick M’Nicholas was from an Estate’ named Ardartha which was not identifiable on either the 1670 Down Survey map or the modern map of Co Kerry.
The line of descent of seed Patrick Stacke b:c1360 might possibly be extended with a 3rd or 4th generation “Thomas. “ Looking for such a Patronymic Thomas record, I found one it particular that stands out. Two attainment records were found, the first as Fiant 5912 5 where Shane oge 7,1 ( of the 7th generation) was attained seven carucates in 1594-5 and the second from Pat 10 5 of James I where he was again attained seven plowlands in c1613 upon his death. (a
carucate = a plowland = 120 acres). Fiant 5912 and Pat 10 of James 1 are not duplicate records with different dates and different recipients of the M’Thomas lands as shown in Reference 5. This is a significant loss of land, almost 1700 acres, demonstrating that this was probably a prestigious family , perhaps from the Stacks of the past. The possible line of descent of Shane oge 7,1 is shown in Figure 2 . There appears to possibly be a missing generation between Thomas 2 and ? Thomas 4. The ? indicates an unkhnown forename.
I interpreted these records to mean that the estate of Shane oge 7 was in Kilfynorighe but the lands attained were elsewhere as are listed in Figure 2. The closest townland name I found for Kilfynorighe was a Kilfenora, consisting of 132 acres in the Barony of Trughackny . Kilfenora is west of Tralee with the bay of Tralee bordering on the North .
Some of the attained lands were in counties other than Kerry, Figure 2, which was also the case for the lands attained of John M’Thomas of Irrymore in Fiant 5912.
I have speculatively included Shane 7,2 m’ Thomas Nemanowe in the same family 5. Thomas Nemanowe 6,2 is a possible second son of Shane M’Thomas 5 who probably would have named his first born son after his father
? Thomas 4. Here the ? would be a” Thomas”. Again this must have been a prestigious family because Shane 7,2 was attained 5 carucates in 1594-5 and another 5 Ploughlands/Carucates in 1613 upon his death for a total of 1200 acres . Both Shane 7,1 and Shane 7,2 died in 1613 possibly as a result of rebellion against the crown. Shane 7,2 is listed as from Ballygodran which sounds like a Co Kerry Townland, but I could not locate it on the 1670 Down Survey map 6 or the current map of Co Kerry. The TL’s attained may have been outside of Co Kerry. There is a TL of Creggan in Northern Ireland and BakktncHirdab is a town in North Kerry on the border of Co Limerick.
As shown in the Table below from the 1659 census both The Stack and the Mc Thomas families were inhabitants in Barony Trughackny. However I have not encountered one Fiant or Patent (out of over 80 records) that has a Stack Record for a Townland in Trughackny which is surprising considering that Barony Trughackny had about twice the population Of Baronies Clanmaurice and Iraghticonnor combined in 1659 . However, Some of of the Fiants and Patents mentioning a Patrick or Patr do not list a Townland / Region/Estate name or even the county.
In the 1659 census table below, some of The seven Mc Thomas families in Trughackny may well have been previously Stacks from a prior era but no absolute proof is currently available. Note that the McThomas population is almost as prevalent as the Stacks.
|Principall Irish names and Number 1659 Irish Census|
|McTeige 29||McDaniell 18||Ô Hanafane 6||Roch 11|
|McMorrish & FitzMorrice 13||Ô Daly 21||Gerrald 7||Ô Shea 18|
|McCurtaine & ÔCurtaine 10||McDonogh 17||Ô Lency 11||Ô Lyne 15|
|Ô Breene 10||McDermod 16||Ô Murphy 23||Ô Healy 7|
|Ô Bryen 8||McEdmund 8||McOwen 14||Ô Leary 7|
|Barry 13||Ô Fowlue 12||McRichard 8||Stack 8|
|Brenagh 8||Ô Flyne 9||Ryerdane 8||Ô Reidy 7|
|Ô Brenane 11||Ô Griffen 14||McWilliam 15||Suvane 9|
|Ô Connell 13||Ô Howrane 12||Gallivan 8||McDauld 6|
|Ô Cahane 13||McThomas 7||McShane 44||Mahony 6|
|McCnoghon 10||McCormack 6||Ô Sullivane 24||Welsh 6|
|Ô Connor 25|
County Kerry Barony Statistics
List of References
- A History of the Kingdom of Kerry by Mary Francis Cusack https://books.google.com/books?id=swJFAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=redmund+stacke&source=bl&ots=4n_DnndI0z&sig=ZTQ-VT_5MYjFu2B0-gSsQyuxVdw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1q4eisNrLAhWDYiYKHcPbDIUQ6AEIIjAC#v=onepage&q=%20stacke&f=false
- The Possible Descendents of Sir Rickard Stack born c1360 Lord of Errimore. James R Beard December 2017
- The Possible Descendents of Redmond Stacke born c1370 , James Richard Beard, December 2017
- Transcription of Colonel Robert Stack of County Kerry and of Cambray,France, circa 1171-1766
Held by the National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.87 pp. 193-9 by Dr Andrew McDonald, 12 November 2012 . A Stack Facebook Post.
- Fiants 5912 and Pat 10 of James I
Fiant 5912 dated 1594-5, “Grant (under the queen’s letter) to Edm Barret, Gent of the town of Balliloghran, owghter and Balliloghran Eaghter, one carucate , parcel of the lands of Maurice fitz Gerald Oge Stacke of Balliloghran, co Kerry . . . –Balligoddran, Creggan and BalliniJordan 5 carucates lands of Shane m’ Thomas ne Manowe of Balligoddran attained . . .–Rathkeny, Ballylahive, Daranaabo,Robertston and Balliovin, 7 carucates parcel of the estate of Shane oge m’Shane M’Thomas of Kilfynorighe in said co. attained ; Ballinorig and Garigankighe, 2 ¼ Carucates lands of John fitz Edm Fitz Ulick of Ballinorig in said co attained. . . 2 carucates in Irrymore, lands of John M’Thomas, of Irrymore, (in) said Co. attained; also Balliduff (10s) ,Downe, (15s),Closcollan (7s6d) in queens hands ( Queens Co) by a staute 3 and 4 Ph. and Mary. . . “ . . .
Pat 10 of James I 1604 “Grant from the king to Thomas FitzMaurice baron of Lixnawe—Kerry co. . . .Balligoddran, Creggan, BallymcJordan , 5 Ploughlands,parcel of the estate of Shane M’Thomas Nemanowe late of Ballygoddran attained; . . –Rathkeny, Ballylahive, Daranabee,Robertstowne and Balilovin, 7 ploughlands parcel of the estate of Shane Oge M’Shane M’Thomas late of Kilfynorighe , attained—Ballynorig and Gerrigankight, 2 ploughlands parcel of the estate of John Fitz-Demond Fitz-Ullick attained. . .2 carucates in Irrymore, lands of John M’Thomas late of Irrymore attained. . . “
|Dungeel, Killorglin Civil Parish, Barony of Magunihy, Co. Kerry 330 A, 2 R, 38 P|
|Borders on the River Laune . . . .”another family of the same name as Stack had an ample|
|estate near the River Laune in Desmond and built a castle there by the name of Fiery .. . .”|
|Pedigree of Col Robert Stack, Ref 4|
Figure 2 The Possible Descendents of Thomas Fitz-Patric Stacke
|1 1384||Patrick 1|
|2 1415||Thomas 2|
|3? Is a Thomas or Patrick||3 1446||3 ?|
|4 1477||? M’Thomas 4|
|Patrick ? 4,1|
|5 1508||Shane M’Thomas 5|
|Thomas||6 1539||Shane 6,1|
|Nemanowe 6,2||Edw 6,1|
|Shane 7,2 1594||7 1570||Shane oge 7,1 1594|
|of Balligoddran||atained 7 carucates d: 1613||Edw oge 7,1 c1605|
|attained 5 carucates||8 1601||of Kilfynorighe||of Dungiull|
|Late of Ballygodran||Late of Kilfynorighe|
|attained 5 plowlands||attained 7 plowlands|
|Dungiull = Dungeel|
|Pat 10 of James I||Pat 10 of James I||Pat 2 James I|
|Balligoddran unlocatable in Co Kerry|
|Kilfynorighe may be Kilfenora W of Tralee (DS1670 & Modern Map of Ireland)|
|Attained Lands||Attained Lands|
|Balligoddran, Creggan, BallymcJordan ,||Rathkeny, Ballylahive, Daranaabo,Robertston and Balliovin|
|Newry||Co Kerry||Ráth Cheannaigh||Ballylahiff||Baile Riobaird|
|UK (Northern Ireland)||Dreminstown||Co. Kerry||Robertstown East|
|Co. Meath||Co. Kildare|
Figure 3 Pat 2 of James 1, pg 56 Line item LI-55 Yr C1605
Patent Rolls of James I, Calendar of the Patent Rolls of the Chancery of Ireland. – (Dublin 1800 …